Liberal Democracy

Liberal Democracy
The Free State

Thursday, May 23, 2013

Geraldo Rivera At-Large: Ann Coulter & Meme Roth Debate The Nanny State


Source:Fox News- Ann Coulter debating Meme Roth. If you want to call it that.
Source:The FreeState

“This might be perhaps the greatest segment of Geraldo at Large ever known to man. During what was supposed to be a debate about NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s various “public health” laws — indoor smoking bans, hidden cigarette displays by mandate, bans on large sugary beverages, etc. — Ann Coulter attempted to flip the “liberal nannying” logic upside-down by bringing up illegitimacy, sodomy, AIDS, and gay bathhouses.
Suffice it to say the segment went off the rails. And did so quickly.

Anti-obesity advocate (and big Bloomberg fan) MeMe Roth started off praising the mayor’s various efforts by noting that he is a “student of behavioral psychology” who understands that “increasing the inconvenience just a little bit” will lead to better choices by the consumer.

Coulter was not having any of it. She tore into Bloomberg by suggesting we just be done with it already and “have a death penalty for smokers,” before changing the subject to the negative behaviors that liberals are unwilling to stigmatize, such as illegitimate birth.

Geraldo Rivera’s efforts to corral the segment away from unwed teen pregnancy were for naught. When Roth made the claim that bans on various unhealthy activities are warranted because “we pick up the tab” for other’s bad habits, Coulter countered that “I think you’re going to have to do something about the gay bathhouses.”

“AIDS is very expensive, and if I’m paying for it, how about discouraging that behavior?” she explained.

Later, while clarifying that she doesn’t actually want to ban homosexual activity, she told Roth, “If you’re argument is ‘Smoking: we all have to pay,’ then why not ‘Sodomy: we all have to pay.'” She told Roth that a consistent position on “nannying” would require her to be “anti-bathhouses” in addition to anti-smoking.

“Can we get off sodomy for a moment?” Rivera asked at one point, seemingly realizing this segment will be fodder for websites like Mediaite.

“The behaviors that liberals approve of, they will not stigmatize,” Coulter once again explained. “Illegitimacy, they are very upset Bloomberg is stigmatizing. Sodomy… they won’t stigmatize. But smoking… if we’re looking at it for health costs, there are plenty of other things.”

The segment then, somehow, shifted towards a conversation on “stop-and-frisk,” with Coulter suggesting we use drones to execute the controversial police policy." 


Just for the record: I’m against the Nanny State and Big Government, period, regardless of whether it comes from the Far-Left with all their proposals to ban tobacco, junk food, soft, drinks, speech that they disagree with.

But, I’m also against the Nanny State and Big Government when it comes from the Far-Right, especially the Christian-Right as it relates to homosexuality, as well as entertainment that they disapprove of, that offends their religious and cultural values.

What you have here is advertised as a debate about the Nanny State and Big Government, with one woman being in favor of it, meaning Meme Roth and one woman being against it, that being Ann Coulter. But the fact is they’re just debating one form of the Nanny State and Big Government as it relates to our personal health.

But if the Ann Coulter’s of the world were in charge in America, they could come down real hard on our personal freedom, perhaps especially against homosexuality. And perhaps she would start with gay bath houses.

CBS News: Mike Wallace- Interviewing Ronald Reagan (1975) 'Opinion On Libertarian-Conservatism'


Source:CBS News- Governor Ronald W. Reagan (Republican, California) being interviewed by CBS News's Mike Wallace, for 60 Minutes, in 1975. 
Source:The FreeState

"If you analyze it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." -Ronald Reagan" 


Definition of fascism: "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition" 


Definition of liberalism: "A political ideology centred upon the individual (see individualism), thought of as possessing rights against the government, including rights of due process under the law, equality of respect, freedom of expression and action, and freedom from religious and ideological constraint. Liberalism is attacked from the left as the ideology of free markets, with no defence against the accumulation of wealth and power in the hands of a few, and as lacking any analysis of the social and political nature of persons. It is attacked from the right as insufficiently sensitive to the value of settled institutions and customs, or to the need for social structure and constraint in providing the matrix for individual freedoms." 

From Oxford

I only show you these definitions of fascism and liberalism, because Ronald Reagan in this interview said that fascism is private enterprise and property that's controlled  by the state. And then he said that's what liberalism is today. And he's just dead wrong about that. 

Ronald Reagan described his own politics as libertarian as late as 1975.  If you look at his career from 1975 to 81 when he wasn’t a politician in office and spent that time running for and then getting elected President in 1980, that’s where he was politically. Not just on economic policy, but social policy and did not believe it was the job of government to interfere with how Americans should live their own lives.

And even though President Reagan escalated the War on Drugs in the 1980s, he didn’t really have much to and want to give the Religious-Right. Or what I call the New-Right in America. Much if anything officially and even though he talked to those groups he was never really with them. And was more about using them to help him politically so they would vote for him. And keep the Far-Right off is back when he ran for reelection in 1984. Something that his Vice President George H.W. Bush wasn’t able to do when he ran for reelection for President in 1992.

I agree with most of what Reagan said in this short clip. Except for when it came it liberalism, where he is dead wrong about liberalism being another word for fascism, which is a different subject. But what Reagan got right was that libertarianism is conservatism. At least in the sense that government shouldn’t be involved in people’s personal or economic lives, as far as trying to direct people in how they should live their own lives. 

That the real difference between what I at least would call classical (not religious conservatism conservatism) and libertarianism has to do with foreign affairs and national security. Not when it comes to government’s involvement in culture and people live their own lives.